Clan Treasury

[Death]

There's nothing wrong with the treasury really, it's been the same for god knows how long. Troop storing, fair enough, that was a BIG problem, however this is just taking it way too far, leave things as they are for the CT

Completely unlimited aid with no restrictions whatsoever?

It has been the same, always an abusable piece of crap. People on other sites have been meaning to fix it for ages, just nobody works up the motivation because most people don't even get that it's messed up.

Volkov, CT alone maybe, but unlimited aid, a Clan Market, Clan Shared Defense, don't you think those things add up? Try not to think of how it would be this set, where, say, you can have some sell on Market then log in and see that someone has stolen a majority of your cash/food, because this change was suggested at the same time as the Sack nerf, they were somewhat made to go together even though they can both stand alone.

[Gen. Volkov]

Well, clan shared defense is actually not that great, it doesn't seem to work. As for nerfing sack, well, actually I don't agree with that. I've been meaning to post on that for awhile, but I haven't found the time. The point of making the bank drain out was so your stuff was not safe. Sack then allows a non-mager to take that stuff, if he or she is patient. Anyway, the CT still doesn't seem that bad to me, even when added in to all the other stuff, clans are supposed to be attractive enough a proposition that you can join one and play with some real advantages that counteract the unlimited attacks and removal of NW restrictions, for all practical purposes.

[Slasher]

Well, clan shared defense is actually not that great, it doesn't seem to work. As for nerfing sack, well, actually I don't agree with that. I've been meaning to post on that for awhile, but I haven't found the time. The point of making the bank drain out was so your stuff was not safe. Sack then allows a non-mager to take that stuff, if he or she is patient. Anyway, the CT still doesn't seem that bad to me, even when added in to all the other stuff, clans are supposed to be attractive enough a proposition that you can join one and play with some real advantages that counteract the unlimited attacks and removal of NW restrictions, for all practical purposes.

Exactly, that post has said it all... and how often do I agree with Popov?

[Freenhult]

Yeah. My main defense was that it hurts what little clan economics there are.

Though, the one thing I do agree with is that the cT shouldn't be used to help a person on 30,000 land to have a net of 200mil. Thats just stupid. Though, the easiest way to fix that is to bash the snot out of the satellite empires that are supplying him repeatedly.

So I agree with the networth restriction on how much you can take out. Make the cT even with the aid feature. You know?

[The Beatles]

It's true that unlimited CT transactions allow any warband in protection to act as a big human clan treasurer, by emptying the CT while others fill it. I am not sure how to prevent that. I think that one obvious thing is to disallow people in protection to use the CT -- I may have already done that. But beyond that, how about also having restrictions on how much you may withdraw from or add to the CT based on your networth? If you raise it mid-run, then sure, you can withdraw more. Just like the bank. This doesn't mesh well with credits, though. I still don't think credits are the ultimate solution, but I can't see a good compromise either, at this point.

[Freenhult]

It would be an inverse relationship Beatles. I guess you'd have to dump enough of your net to get the cash, but you wouldn't have a way to get said net back. So in that way, it works. Unless two people are on, FA net away... take cash, get FA'd back for as much as you can.

*Shrug* The above is slightly complicated, and results in having less net than you would normally. But its a good first step.

[The Beatles]

Yes, the fact that it would be an inverse relationship did not escape my notice.

If it were thus proportional to your net, it would be too much of a hassle to exploit. I don't really know, now, if we need credits in addition to such a restriction, though. Maybe we don't.

And to correct a point: how much you take should definitely be proportional, but how much you can give should be unrestricted. And what you can withdraw might in addition be expressed as a percentage of the clan CT plus the cash you have on hand.

Mind you, none of the numbers should be hard numbers. The caps might be based on the proportion of your net that makes up the clan's total net; how much you can withdraw a percentage of what's in the CT, etc.

Offhand, all of these methods have minuscule ways in which they can be "exploited" (even credits and delays), but I don't think it's serious. It's still annoying, from the point of view of purity, that that's the case, so I'm still looking for better solutions...

[Tetigustas shadowson]

that is most rational, and verry applicable.
it would be more a benifit to clan life and a hinderence to abuse

[Shadow I]

Yes, the fact that it would be an inverse relationship did not escape my notice.

If it were thus proportional to your net, it would be too much of a hassle to exploit. I don't really know, now, if we need credits in addition to such a restriction, though. Maybe we don't.

And to correct a point: how much you take should definitely be proportional, but how much you can give should be unrestricted. And what you can withdraw might in addition be expressed as a percentage of the clan CT plus the cash you have on hand.

Mind you, none of the numbers should be hard numbers. The caps might be based on the proportion of your net that makes up the clan's total net; how much you can withdraw a percentage of what's in the CT, etc.

Offhand, all of these methods have minuscule ways in which they can be "exploited" (even credits and delays), but I don't think it's serious. It's still annoying, from the point of view of purity, that that's the case, so I'm still looking for better solutions...

If you put a max percentage of the contents of the CT that can be withdrawn there will always be some left over that you can't get back. Not much, but it seems a bit of a waste.

[The Beatles]

Not if you're under the clan average. Put it another way: there'll always be a lowest member in the clan; he can withdraw everything.

[Freenhult]

Not if you're under the clan average. Put it another way: there'll always be a lowest member in the clan; he can withdraw everything.

Oh. Thats not abusable?! Hey! Drop ALL your net so you can take out the 50bil in the cT!

Yeah. No -matter- what we do. It'll be the same. You can't fix this. Because it may seem like a problem, but it really isn't. You can only just limit the effect.

If one empire is having a large net attached to him, and the others aren't. I'd think that those little satellite empires are feeding him resources so he can stay afloat. So if you kill them, you win! Thats the whole point of being a clan. To win. It just so happens the cT makes the slightly more possible, but barely.

[The Beatles]

You can only just limit the effect.

I think that's pretty much enough. The line between legitimacy and abuse is soft -- even aid can be abused, but nobody's proposing to remove it.

Otherwise, I agree with you 100%.

[Death]

Aid requires turns and has limits at least.

This can be fixed, it's not hard. Everything in Prom can be fixed.

[Slasher]

This is not broke, just leave it, it's never really been a problem anyways - resources don't cont for that much, it's not as if you can send troops through it

[Freenhult]

Everything in Prom can be fixed.

Fixed? How so? Fixed to someones dreams and hopes. The cT IS fixed. We like it how it is, and we're willing to accept this small change to it. Consider it a victory and move on.