A Request/From RWL

[sh0e]

I think the behavior of some people around here is rather aweful, and that you should think about how you would react should somone do the same to you

elaborate.

and quite frankly i wouldnt give a flying rats hindquarters if there were a quote stating something like "wolf bite is better than sh0e.. and has a bigger stick too"
and that is deliberately a personal statement.

[wolf bite]

One of the down sides to internet posting is that tone is hard to detect. Sometimes we have preconceived opinions as to where a person is coming from before the post is read and the tone of the writer may be distorted.

I can see that someone saw “newest member wolf bite� and the first thought would be “what is his problem and lets get ready for a fight.� Making the assumption that my tone was not menacing toward people and they should reread from a page ago. Just possibly my tone and intent was:

“Hey, reasonable minds can differ in the interpretation of some of the stuff going on in the posts and actions on this forum that directly affect a different forum. In order to make a more orderly alliance, please adjust future actions.�


Wolf Bite

[Devari]

Right, this should just end. I'm splitting this off the main topic as well.

[wolf bite]

Hey, really, thanks for splitting the topic. However I am not trying to be that controversial. And as in my last post, I have no intent for people to think that I am here to attack FAF or its people, but to request fair treatment, thus someday forging a more corporative arrangement. Making the topic “the argument� will set people on the defense. Since the first post is mine, I ask the topic to be changed to “A Request / From RWL�

Thanks,


Wolf Bite

[Ruddertail]

Assuming I have the right to do this...

That's a valid point. Consider it done.

~Ruddertail~

[wolf bite]

Censorship?

This has been moved to where no one can see it. Thus taking public opinion out of the equation. The staff of FAF have already told me that they see nothing wrong. So there is really no place to go from here.

Seems I have the answer to my questions.

I am sure that if RWL did this that we would be flamed relentlessly. I really have no want to start that.

Thanks for your time.

Away …..


Wolf Bite

[Ruddertail]

I moved it here because I felt it belonged here, in an area for disscussions between FAF staff and RWL staff. Beatles, if you feel this should be veiwable by the public, let me know, and I'll move it back.

[Veranor]

Censorship?

This has been moved to where no one can see it. Thus taking public opinion out of the equation. The staff of FAF have already told me that they see nothing wrong. So there is really no place to go from here.

Seems I have the answer to my questions.

I am sure that if RWL did this that we would be flamed relentlessly. I really have no want to start that.

Thanks for your time.

Away …..


Wolf Bite

What does public opinion have to do with this? It's between RWL and FAF, not the various users at each. If you have a problem with the way we do things you should tell us not put it on the public forums where it gets in the way of the discussion of other topics and really has nothing to do with public discussion.

RWL has never done something like this. The difference is that the RWL admins lock topics where discussions like this occur. We have simply moved it to a place where it does not disturb anyone who it doesn't concern. Almost like over PM which is where it should have been in the first place. The RWL admins ask us not to post bug reports in the bug forums, so we ask you not to disrupt the GD with things that only concern admins of each site.

[The Beatles]

I won't take a side. Wolf Bite, if you want the topic to be placed back in GD, I will move it back.
I meant this forum for discussions (NOT for the public) about ties between us -- sort of a place to thresh out our differences and hammer out affiliations. If you are open to that kind of thing.

[Devari]

Well, considering this should involve only admins and mods on FAF and RWL* (let's not drag the average players into this), I support being put in this forum.

However, if you truly claim censorship, than I will move it to GD.


* Seeing as this seems to be a discussion on FAF policy...

[wolf bite]

I really feel like I came here with an olive branch and was met with a flame thrower.

I have used facts and logic to state a fair argument concerning the actions of FAF’s staff. I have not made any attacks on the personalities of the FAF staff, nor have I downgraded their forum or games. I have made no such comments.

Likewise, I have made no such comments on RWL concerning FAF. Yes I have made comments on RWL concerning their actions when on RWL, but that is much different then talking about their actions on their own game in RWL. After all, I am sure this conversation about the actions of FAF would have gone over much better on RWL. But I choose not to talk about the polices on a different site, that would seem to be bashing, and counter productive.

My point is very simple, if FAF really wants to have a peaceful relationship with RWL, then the first step is to stop all bashing and unfair treatment. Look at the facts. We don’t do it to you. We share many members. If we both were to put pressure on our members concerning this, then they will be uncomfortable and both sites will have people become less interested. A peaceful relationship is possible. The first step is to stop the catapults.

Again looking at facts, if anything I have been very neutral concerning FAF on RWL. When I started as an admin there were strict rules concerning banners and advertising. When issues came up, I found it much more logical to find mid points. The other admins have followed and not contradicted. Respectable sized banners that are not too excessive are now allowed. Advertising is now allowed if not done in a degrading or excessive manner. Our no flame rules has been extended to matters about FAF. And who is the one responsible for those changes?

But as I come here to ask for corporation, I am met with insults against me and RWL.

This simple topic has expanded as I must correct untrue statements that are being tossed out at me. It was just said that RWL locks topics that question policy, since when? We just went through an uprising over whether their should be something as simple as underline for links. We do have a simple rule “RWL staff will not be personally insulted when doing his or her job.� And for doing so, yes the topic is locked, but not deleted or hidden. A big difference.

I do not think FAF has a rule that none of its policies or actions may ever be questioned in a polite manner. If that is the case, then you should post that rule, but I really don’t think that wise.

Now onto yet another sub issue as to placing this in a hidden place. I was not notified, and had I not first signed in as a guest, I would have thought it was not hidden. When the topic was split, I put a link in the first topic to show the connection. So my Intent to talk to the FAF community is known. Because it would not be proper for me to post on RWL concerning the actions of FAF, you have left me no way to communicate with people that following your requests concerning other sites may not be proper, this would be unfair. Besides, I get the feeling that the staff here is very unmovable on such a simple topic as to fairness to its neighbor. A forum talking to a solid wall would be a waste of time. It is like going over to the house next door at 3 am and asking them to turn the music down and them saying “We don’t think you should care about our loud music and by the way, we have cut your phone lines.�

I agree that we should have logical talks between our community. Neither RWL or FAF are planning of leaving. Our people are shared. And I was thinking of asking for a forum to discuses more delicate matter that don’t involve the general community as this one does. But I have no intent to do anything that involves “thresh out our differences and hammer out affiliations.� Much to violent. How about “burying the hatchet to reach mutual understandings?�

Now finally after dealing with all the sub topics that have cluttered up this very simple request from your neighbor. A few of your staff have said that the way some of those statements have been made have fairly reasonable meanings that are not appropriate. Thus proving that reasonable minds (and a good percentage of them) do see a problem and my request for fair treatment is just that, .. fair.

Oh and I have talked to Rag concerning his statement, he did say he said it. So I take back my question as to whether it was paraphrased. But an interesting spin of facts have come to light. Reg is known as a RWL admin from over a year ago, so the meaning of using him gave the impression that it is a RWL endorsement of FAF while putting down RWL. Come on, why him of all the people? But the facts that were left out give a different meaning to his statement. Not only had he only spent a few days even on the current version of RWL but he was a co-designer of FAF! So that is like “My art work is better then other peoples art work which I have barely looked at.� ~ Artist. Besides, I don’t even see or hear about Rag plying FAF, so really what kind of endorsement is that besides using the person’s name? And even if someone that does play both games said such a thing (IE: Peace) using it to promote would be a downgrade of RWL. Which is not neighborly.

In short, unless you have a rule about questioning the rules, please move this in full back to GD. Please give me the credit of the reasonable discussion I am trying to have and stop with the attacks, nothing is being achieved. If there is an earnest want to work out differences, then I am fine with private talks. Please take the first step by having FAF check truly whether some of its policies should be changed when they affect other servers?


Wolf Bite

[The Beatles]

Topic moved back.
Sheesh, by the length of your post, you seem to be taking everything we do, like moving this topic, as a personal affront. Get over the concept that we are all out to get you.
Ragefur offered the statement of his own free will when he signed in and browsed around FAF's features.
[edit] It's more like RWL locks topics I start, not necessarily those concerned with policy. But I know only Shael does that.

[Devari]

I don't have time to respond to all that message, but I can make this point:

Did I miss read that or is that a nice way of saying “please spam a different server.�

Those were your first words on FAF. I'm sorry, but I don't really think that is much of an olive branch. I don't mean to be critical, but you do seem to be making us out to be more of the bogeymen than we are here...

[The Beatles]

BUMP