Ideas from topic Industry vrs. Hawk

[Ruddertail]

Things I belive we aggreed on.

Badger: Bloodwrath
A nice +25 to your attack and a powerful -50 to defence (your defence, not the opponent's), seeing as the badger lords don't seem to live well through bloodwrath when facing an enemy horde. Activate it at any time. It lasts for 48 hours, though, so be prepared.


Hare: Long patrol defense. Gives a + 25% to defense, but limits you to 4:10 retal, and no attacks except for retal for it's duration. And lasts for 48 hours.

Things that need some work

Hedgehog: Pincushion Defence
Defence is increased by an amount based on citizenry.
Cost required to make this more effective, but always on otherwise.
Some cost or another.
Also grants a bit of bonus against hawk attacks if certain number of citizens / total land is met. (Needs costs set.)

Vole: Overtime
Barracks are even more productive, but troops consume more. Power depends somewhat on workers, i.e. x number of workers per y number of barracks needed to maintain this. Yield must be greater than with pure barrack. Some payment upfront, likely in turns. (needs amounts set)

Things I just came up with.

Squirrel: Tree top hawk direction
It bases the amount of hawks lost in a hawk battle (when you attack, not when defending) on your ratio. If you have a high ofensive ratio, you have relativly minamal losses, while when you have a low ratio, and barely get though, your losses are significantly higher. When you are defending, hawk losses would stay the same, otherwise suicides by indys are basicly useless.

Mouse: Courageous Warrior
Allows mice to attack someone higher in net then them, and also increases the space between beginning to incure losses, and the point where the generals refuse to attack.

What we still need

Otter (Devari said said he was working on something, so it goes here, even though Zeph had this idea.)

Otter: River Raiders
Enhance otter's attack bonus even further, at a few more percent of losses, of course, for naval attacks.
That way, otter's stats rival that of badger even though it's got a useless bonus to explore and plenty of minus signs everywhere.
Activate by paying amount of otters proportional to some factor based on 1. land 2. NW and 3. troops.

Shrew:

Mole:

And that sums it up. So, thougts, ideas, something I missed?

[bjornredtail]

Shrew: Guerilla operation. Reduces losses, and you can attack anywhere without the penality of having your raiders up. IE, to attack you, another warband would first have to prepare raiders if they are in a different region. In exchange, you gain far less in attacks.

[Ruddertail]

That sound good, thought decreas in land gained couldn't be too small, otherwise it'd be easier just to attack with regular attacks...

[Urran Voh]

I thought of something like this for Warbands back ago.

Badger: Bloodwrath
The Badger's special attack lets him take more land with a higher troop loss.

Vole: Poison Dart
An upped version of Murder, except it takes a few acres of land and "murders" 6% of a random troop type.

Hare: Long Patrol
While scouting, the Long Patrol finds and extra 5% troops in the wild.

Squirrel: Tree Top Assault
The Squirrel attacks in guerilla fashion, losing 3% less troops.

Mole: Tunnel Attack
The Mole uses a vast network of tunnels to destroy enemy Markets, Foragers, Huts, and Barracks. Can only be used if the target has a better Hawk ratio than yourself.

[Zephyrus]

Hm...

Bloodwrath should be more land gain? Would more attack points instead be possible? Kills now are easy as they stand, and anything making them more so may or may not be good.

Why does Vole get poison dart? I see vole as being a race dependent on massive amounts of troops. Something should make user stronger, not opponent weaker. Not to mention the 6% seems really painful as murder can be shielded. Even if the opponent has only one troop type, this is still 3/2 the effectiveness of murder. This combined with its [vole's] unnatural indy and upkeep?

Would scouting be useful at all? Hares would get more from training function than scouting with the ability, and that's not counting what activation cost it may have.

The squirrel power is silly. 3% less? So if I normally lose 100 mice, I lose 97? Absurd. That would not amount to more than 1k troop loss difference even at high nets. 30% even may not be well. And isn't squirrel the exclusive (has no other function, no other functions alike) hawk race? Shouldn't it get a hawk oriented ability?

The condition for tunnel attack will rarely be false, as moles have horrid ratios. It's logical, but balanced?

Nothing against Urran, not being especially critical, only saying what may go wrong. I know it's harsh, uncalled for, and unfair. But the prospect of solo kill machine badgers, or overly destructive vole and moles playing for spite may not be a good idea?

I should have posted this anonyomously... so says common sense.

[The Beatles]

You do realize, all of you, that these ideas will have to be heavily thought out before they even come under consideration of development...

[Zephyrus]

Isn't that what we're doing?

[Ruddertail]

Exactly. Zeph, what do you think of Nev's suggestion?

[The Beatles]

Yes, I was just commenting. You seemed apologetic, when in truth criticism is desired.

[Urran Voh]

I know my ideas are old, since they were thought up for Warbands..

[Devari]

One thing that should probably be kept in mind is that bonuses for each race and execution of said bonuses should be related to the primary strategic application of that race. For example, indy races shouldn't have to use hawk missions to execute their special skill - perhaps these could be special attacks. Conversely, a hawking race like Squirrel would need to execute their skill in a hawk mission.

The point is, if we make it all hawk missions then an indy-er suffers. If we make it all non-hawk missions than a hawker suffers.

[Ruddertail]

My thoughts were to have a seperate page from which the ability could be activated.

[bjornredtail]

Perhaps it could be added to a sortof operations page. Like editicts in Tropico... Anyways, each would have a base price, and certain requirements (perhaps building ratios, or troop/land ratios, or free land), in addation to it's running effects.

Other operations, for all warbands, could include a switch to directly sell a certain percentage of food produced, or a trade of lower food costs for troops and hawks for higher cash costs, or vice-versa, an equilivant to Raise Defences... etc. etc. Just put the industrial's specal ability under that, and put the hawker's specal ability under theirs.

[Devari]

You know Nev, I really like that idea. I think it would work.

[The Beatles]

Kind of like the Special Missions on RWL, but not tied to Hawks?