Comments on The State of the Game + Player Affairs

[Squiggles]

(Late night rant. Not the most calm and collected of my words, but I do hope you get my point.)

I am not a newbie. I've been around the block a few times before, and I do miss those times dearly. Now that it's finally summer, I'm going to start playing again. Being my first set in countless many, I'm not sure I'm in any position to be saying much of this. Yet I still hope you guys will at least hear me out. I've been watching and asking around and played a bit not too long ago, and I'm concerned about how things are going or have gone. Part of this is the game itself, but the biggest thing is probably the people in the game. The whole attitude of the game isn't what it could and should be, and I think as a game we could change that. Apologies for the anonymity, but I don't really know if any grudges against me would still hold. (P.S. Don't bother checking my IP address. I've switched ISPs recently, so it won't show up. I think.)

First and foremost, I am bothered by the general attitude of people in the game. We must not forget about the differences between what is in the game and what is outside it. This is meant to be a violent game between otherwise nice people. That is, keep your violence between empires, not players. Whether the other person is a newbie or oldbie, they are still your fellow human being. You owe them respect and dignity, and moreover, the rules and admins of the game compel you to give it. We don't need profanity over the in-game messaging system, nor some of the hurtful name calling I've been quoted. If you dislike someone as an empire, that's no reason to take it out on them personally. If you find reason to disrespect a fellow player, then the admins will find reason to direspect you.

I am also bothered by the attitude in gameplay though. This is not an HPR* race; this is a war game. It becomes a bit disturbing when most, perhaps even all, of the game's players play a strategy that is essentially the passing around of land between runs for troop "farming". This started before I left and has now devolved into "Please hit me with T#." I am frankly disturbed by this.

* - HPR - Happy Pony Raising - the strategy of building 100% foragers, having no troops, and scouting for land

I am perhaps even more disturbed by the devolution of etiquette. I understand this has some origins in the old TSoR, Warbands, RWL, etc. Some of it back then was justified, many were good ideas, and some -- though I disagreed with them -- were at least reasonable ideas. But they have gone too far. It is one thing that we should be kind to newbies. (and ironically it sounds like you guys aren't) But to say that people must play by your strange concept of what the game should be is absurd, and to enforce it upon them is even more so.

I'm going to remind everyone this: what the game intends to allow is allowable. (Exceptions being e.g. 1 rat attacks being what I would consider bug abuse.) Perhaps it's not very nice if someone murders your army, sacks your resources, and takes your land to boot. But it's part of the game. And I think what's worse is essentially crying out loud and ... please excuse the analogy, but I do believe it's correct ... forming a lynch mob. I think that the greatest misdeed of all is gathering together all your friends and pounding someone for disagreeing with your vision of a perfect game. (Even more inappropriate analogies here could include... ok, this is me late night ranting... but I'm not gonna go _that_ far.) Rule of might in the context of the game is if anything a goal, but outside the game is just wrong. Just because you're more influential among the game community should not mean that you get to pound whoever you please.

I'm tired of "Murder is wrong." or "Three attack rule." (Yes, take that out of context please.) It's part of the game. And if you personally dislike it as an empire, you can personally retaliate as an empire. But I believe it should be wrong to have all your friends crush the guy. In this case, you're not doing it for the game; you're doing it for your own ego, and I think that's wrong.

(Train of thought dies. Discuss.)

[Freenhult]

Um, HI.

As an Admin and mostly former player, I'll address this step by step.

I am not a newbie. I've been around the block a few times before, and I do miss those times dearly. Now that it's finally summer, I'm going to start playing again. Being my first set in countless many, I'm not sure I'm in any position to be saying much of this. Yet I still hope you guys will at least hear me out. I've been watching and asking around and played a bit not too long ago, and I'm concerned about how things are going or have gone. Part of this is the game itself, but the biggest thing is probably the people in the game. The whole attitude of the game isn't what it could and should be, and I think as a game we could change that. Apologies for the anonymity, but I don't really know if any grudges against me would still hold. (P.S. Don't bother checking my IP address. I've switched ISPs recently, so it won't show up. I think.)

Great that you've decided to play at FaF. Also, I already know who you are. So no worries there.

First and foremost, I am bothered by the general attitude of people in the game. We must not forget about the differences between what is in the game and what is outside it. This is meant to be a violent game between otherwise nice people. That is, keep your violence between empires, not players. Whether the other person is a newbie or oldbie, they are still your fellow human being. You owe them respect and dignity, and moreover, the rules and admins of the game compel you to give it. We don't need profanity over the in-game messaging system, nor some of the hurtful name calling I've been quoted. If you dislike someone as an empire, that's no reason to take it out on them personally. If you find reason to disrespect a fellow player, then the admins will find reason to direspect you.

If people are being general retards, please PM someone on the forum. I'm sorry, I don't really have time to get around on the admin accounts so much with work and school being an issue. IF you want, copypasta the exchanges and PM to my account or just Forward them to the admin account. I'll take a look into.

We do -not- tolerate bullying, offensive name calling and threats of personal injury or the sort in our game. If this is an issue or has been, please contact an admin immediately.

I am also bothered by the attitude in gameplay though. This is not an HPR* race; this is a war game. It becomes a bit disturbing when most, perhaps even all, of the game's players play a strategy that is essentially the passing around of land between runs for troop "farming". This started before I left and has now devolved into "Please hit me with T#." I am frankly disturbed by this.

* - HPR - Happy Pony Raising - the strategy of building 100% foragers, having no troops, and scouting for land

Yes, most games it seems now everyones worried about netting. Its the final goal overall to net the most, but all the good fun of diplomacy and such is gone. People don't seem to get that. If you don't like it, make war. Most of these guys can't fight worth a lick anyway, so you can walk all over them if you want.

I am perhaps even more disturbed by the devolution of etiquette. I understand this has some origins in the old TSoR, Warbands, RWL, etc. Some of it back then was justified, many were good ideas, and some -- though I disagreed with them -- were at least reasonable ideas. But they have gone too far. It is one thing that we should be kind to newbies. (and ironically it sounds like you guys aren't) But to say that people must play by your strange concept of what the game should be is absurd, and to enforce it upon them is even more so.

We don't really have an official etiquette guide. The only really unspoken rule is don't online. Apart from that, everything's really fair game. Our rules were revoked some time ago, do to low player count.

I'm going to remind everyone this: what the game intends to allow is allowable. (Exceptions being e.g. 1 rat attacks being what I would consider bug abuse.) Perhaps it's not very nice if someone murders your army, sacks your resources, and takes your land to boot. But it's part of the game. And I think what's worse is essentially crying out loud and ... please excuse the analogy, but I do believe it's correct ... forming a lynch mob. I think that the greatest misdeed of all is gathering together all your friends and pounding someone for disagreeing with your vision of a perfect game. (Even more inappropriate analogies here could include... ok, this is me late night ranting... but I'm not gonna go _that_ far.) Rule of might in the context of the game is if anything a goal, but outside the game is just wrong. Just because you're more influential among the game community should not mean that you get to pound whoever you please.

No one is really influential other than Volk and I as for in game. But thats because we're the most well known and all. Sometimes, the point of ganging up on people is for the overall good. If someone is using an account to make the game lame, by dropping land or just looting/murdering the whole set. I say let them be smashed to dust by whoever can rally against them. If you wish to change something in the game, rally an army of your own and do what you believ is right against them.

I'm tired of "Murder is wrong." or "Three attack rule." (Yes, take that out of context please.) It's part of the game. And if you personally dislike it as an empire, you can personally retaliate as an empire. But I believe it should be wrong to have all your friends crush the guy. In this case, you're not doing it for the game; you're doing it for your own ego, and I think that's wrong.

Really can't say much. Murdering excessively is wrong, and as for an attack rule, thats understandable to a degree. So, the best thing I can say is ignore it. If its a problem, contact me about it.

[Slasher]

Yes, most games it seems now everyones worried about netting. Its the final goal overall to net the most, but all the good fun of diplomacy and such is gone. People don't seem to get that.

That's what I've been trying to do most of this set, annoy people so they get pissed off and start war or something.

[Squiggles]

Also, I already know who you are. So no worries there.

Is my writing style _that_ obvious?

[Slasher]

Well, I think it's gotta be one of two people I probably couldn't guess correctly between the two but I'm pretty sure one of them is correct

[The Beatles]

Oh, and devolution is not the opposite of evolution. Devolution is the decentralisation of power; the opposite of evolution is perhaps regression or degeneration. I know the former is a common modern use though.

[Freenhult]

Also, I already know who you are. So no worries there.

Is my writing style _that_ obvious?

Yes. It really is.

[Gen. Volkov]

I think I know who you are as well, but I don't think I'm as sure about it as Freen is.

No one is really influential other than Volk and I as for in game.

Much as I would love to agree with that to stroke my ego, I don't think just Freen and I are the only really influential players in the game.

I am also bothered by the attitude in gameplay though. This is not an HPR* race; this is a war game. It becomes a bit disturbing when most, perhaps even all, of the game's players play a strategy that is essentially the passing around of land between runs for troop "farming". This started before I left and has now devolved into "Please hit me with T#." I am frankly disturbed by this.

I admit I am currently guilty of that, I'm not pursuing any real goal, and I'm a member of the "Land Flow" clan. But I don't see the passing of land as inherently unhealthy, it serves as a stage for those who have a goal to work their strategies. The whole "please hit me with this troop" thing might be a bit unhealthy though.

[Alazar]

I think land passing is a HEALTHY part of the game. It works real nice on all the other servers i play.

[Freenhult]

Thats not what he means Alazar. He's talking about the stream of land thats seemingly unvalued and traded as pettily at dirt. That is a problem. While you should have some degree of landflow in a game, it shouldn't be easy and simple to do. There should be a working effort to take land and a given one to holding it. Afterall, having a run starting at 50k and going from there is -far- more productive then spending ~130 turns scraping it up.

We made tons of suggestions for steaming this problem. The biggest one was make attacks take less land. I think we should -really- push this issue around and work on it.

[Freenhult]

Everyone that wants to comment on this -please take a moment to either...
A. Refresh yourself on the material.
B. Read it.

Thanks~

http://frostnflame.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3373&st=45
And
http://frostnflame.org/forum/index.php?showtopic=3388&hl=Attack+limit

[Slasher]

Afterall, having a run starting at 50k and going from there is -far- more productive then spending ~130 turns scraping it up.

Why do you think I kept about 43k for about 2 days in the last BfR set? this "land passing" is getting boring

[Squiggles]

It's very hard to stop land passing through code modifications, and doing so would mess up the game in itself. You just need some players who are tired of land passers and are willing to do something about it, i.e. wall.

[maddog]

Afterall, having a run starting at 50k and going from there is -far- more productive then spending ~130 turns scraping it up.

Why do you think I kept about 43k for about 2 days in the last BfR set? this "land passing" is getting boring

Not mention the 77,063k i kept for 5days despite a massive effort to take it and me down

[Freenhult]

It's very hard to stop land passing through code modifications, and doing so would mess up the game in itself. You just need some players who are tired of land passers and are willing to do something about it, i.e. wall.

Hardly, as it is now, reducing the landgrab amount wouldn't hurt the game at all. Since FaF has a decent defensive structure, that should help people build an adequate defense to break people for land. Also, this would hopefully reduce the amount of landlocks in the game.