Political Compass

[Freenhult]

Well. Let's have a Constitution burning party on Tuesday.

219-212, the bill passed.

[Shadow I]

Wow. Did not see that coming. Great news though. Maybe there is hope for the US yet

[Freenhult]

Hope? Hope for what? Socialism? Communism? Certainly NOT what the people want.

[Gen. Volkov]

I have one correction to that Volkov. I'll have you know I never licked a stoat in my life.

LOL. Right.

Well. Let's have a Constitution burning party on Tuesday.

Maybe it will be struck down by the Supreme Court, if it really is unconstitutional.

[Devari]

Huh. That was very unexpected. I assumed it would be shot down.

[Shadow I]

Hope? Hope for what? Socialism? Communism? Certainly NOT what the people want.

Lol

Again, having one aspect of your life socialized does not make your country a socialist one. In this case, it just means you are taking the first few steps out of the health care dark ages.

[Nuclear Raunch]

I would have preferred an exact replica of the Swiss system, but o well.

[Freenhult]

Hope? Hope for what? Socialism? Communism? Certainly NOT what the people want.

Lol

Again, having one aspect of your life socialized does not make your country a socialist one. In this case, it just means you are taking the first few steps out of the health care dark ages.

This is funny Shadow. Do you know that your own political leaders have come to America in the past couple years to have surgery? Do you know that foreign leaders come to America to have surgery, when they could be checked out in their own country.
I'm not talking about small time leaders, I'm talking about people from major European countries.

There is a reason why America has the BEST health care in the nation. What the government is doing, by having the ability to PUT the insurance companies out of business, which multiple leaders in the Obama Admin have stated is WRONG.

If you want to fix health care in America, there are at least TWO simple things, yet no one has the balls to do it.

1. Tort reform
2. Let people buy insurance across state lines.

Oh, and if you want to loan me the money to buy HC then please do. Since under Obama-care you MUST buy in and all or pay a $2000 fine or 10% of your income fine if you don't have anything. I can't even afford to buy anything as is. My dad is on medicade and my mom is unemployed, yet we're supposed to cough up even more money for this bull . I have $100,000 in loans I'll need to pay, and now I have to deal with this.

This was never about health care, it was all about controlling people's lives.

[Shadow I]

Having the best doctors does not mean the best health care. Giving operations to those who can afford to pay while leaving a significant chunk of your population without coverage at all says nothing good about your health care system. Your country ranks quite low in the average consumer experience with health care.

You are going to go from aving no coverage to some coverage, at less cost per year than if you had bought private insurance. Which you chose not to, fine, but now there is a cheaper alternative. In some cases this will be detrimental, but in the average case, there will be money saved. 14 billion per year, according to the current estimate.

Of course, it will be a bumpy ride at first, and you guys are in the first round, so things are going to look a bit ty to begin with, but once the bugs get smoothed out you will see improvements to the cost and accessibility of health care.

[Freenhult]

Having the best doctors does not mean the best health care. Giving operations to those who can afford to pay while leaving a significant chunk of your population without coverage at all says nothing good about your health care system. Your country ranks quite low in the average consumer experience with health care.

Heh. Shadow, maybe this is because you've never spent time in America, but man. The people that "aren't covered at all" is interesting. Let's take me for example, I have no insurance and I haven't for 4+ years. I have a bad knee condition among other things, but I won't digress. I hurt me knee again about 2 years ago. I had to go to the hospital, not the ER mind you. I got FREE services done FROM the hospital. My family doctor has given me and my family free trial packs of prescriptions for years. I needed to take some medicine and every month, I went back and they gave me another month of samples. They charged me $20 for a visit instead of the $50 they'd charge insurance.
People who don't have any plan are NOT alone, and the ones that think so don't know anything. There are PLENTY of safety nets out the for US citizens. I don't know how that was in Canada before socialism but there is a major difference. No one in America has to die, there is ALWAYS some place to go or some program to enroll in. I'm probably eligible for Medicaid now, I was going to re-in-role this year. Never mind that now.

You are going to go from having no coverage to some coverage, at less cost per year than if you had bought private insurance. Which you chose not to, fine, but now there is a cheaper alternative. In some cases this will be detrimental, but in the average case, there will be money saved. 14 billion per year, according to the current estimate.

Of course, it will be a bumpy ride at first, and you guys are in the first round, so things are going to look a bit  ty to begin with, but once the bugs get smoothed out you will see improvements to the cost and accessibility of health care.

Wrong again. I'd strongly recommend you read the bill Shadow. This is not a good bill. There is no public option. There is NOTHING In the bill to control "skyrocketing premiums", there is nothing to stop you from paying more... other than taking the governments program. There are LAWS set up that keep the insurance companies from charging rates, a price floor really. What happens when the gov't charges UNDER the price floor.

I'd be less pissed Shadow if this was about people getting insurance, but show me ONE example of where the Government takes over an industry and DOES IT RIGHT.

[Gen. Volkov]

You are going to go from aving no coverage to some coverage, at less cost per year than if you had bought private insurance. Which you chose not to, fine, but now there is a cheaper alternative.

Actually, that's not quite true. People from 20-40 pay about the same as people in countries with socialized medicine. It's the 50- when you get medicare bracket that are paying the most. Freen, even if he had health insurance, would paying about the same as you do.

[Shadow I]

Certainly, but he would be paying on organization that has a monetaray incentive to deny him care, whereas I am not.

But, I am not going to convince anyone here. I will let time decide who has the right of it.

[Nuclear Raunch]

Hope? Hope for what? Socialism? Communism? Certainly NOT what the people want.

Lol

Again, having one aspect of your life socialized does not make your country a socialist one. In this case, it just means you are taking the first few steps out of the health care dark ages.

There is a reason why America has the BEST health care in the nation.

I'd be less pissed Shadow if this was about people getting insurance, but show me ONE example of where the Government takes over an industry and DOES IT RIGHT.

Here's one from last year, taking over failing banks. NPR did a special report on one in particular that was a pretty entertaining.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102384657

I hurt me knee again about 2 years ago. I had to go to the hospital, not the ER mind you. I got FREE services done FROM the hospital. My family doctor has given me and my family free trial packs of prescriptions for years. I needed to take some medicine and every month, I went back and they gave me another month of samples. They charged me $20 for a visit instead of the $50 they'd charge insurance.
People who don't have any plan are NOT alone, and the ones that think so don't know anything. There are PLENTY of safety nets out the for US citizens.

Man, you have no idea how lucky you are. My dad is self employed and he has no government assistance program available because of his property and his business. He's hit all of them because the insurance is killing him, he's paying $2k a month out of pocket every month for a family of 4. He can't switch because of pre-existing conditions, the first $4k in prescription drugs he has to pay out of pocket, and I forgot what his copays are. I'd call and ask but you just don't call my dad if you don't have an hour or 2 to spare.

His wife is a social worker that deals with troubled teens and she's trying to get a county job just for the health insurance, and she doesn't care what the pay is.

Actually, that's not quite true. People from 20-40 pay about the same as people in countries with socialized medicine. It's the 50- when you get medicare bracket that are paying the most. Freen, even if he had health insurance, would paying about the same as you do.

I don't know who told you that but I can guarantee that's bs. When you look at how much more money we pay than they do there's no way in hell that difference can come from just the last 20-30 years of life.

[Freenhult]

Hope? Hope for what? Socialism? Communism? Certainly NOT what the people want.

Lol

Again, having one aspect of your life socialized does not make your country a socialist one. In this case, it just means you are taking the first few steps out of the health care dark ages.

There is a reason why America has the BEST health care in the nation.

I'd be less pissed Shadow if this was about people getting insurance, but show me ONE example of where the Government takes over an industry and DOES IT RIGHT.

Here's one from last year, taking over failing banks. NPR did a special report on one in particular that was a pretty entertaining.

http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=102384657

I hurt me knee again about 2 years ago. I had to go to the hospital, not the ER mind you. I got FREE services done FROM the hospital. My family doctor has given me and my family free trial packs of prescriptions for years. I needed to take some medicine and every month, I went back and they gave me another month of samples. They charged me $20 for a visit instead of the $50 they'd charge insurance.
People who don't have any plan are NOT alone, and the ones that think so don't know anything. There are PLENTY of safety nets out the for US citizens.

Man, you have no idea how lucky you are. My dad is self employed and he has no government assistance program available because of his property and his business. He's hit all of them because the insurance is killing him, he's paying $2k a month out of pocket every month for a family of 4. He can't switch because of pre-existing conditions, the first $4k in prescription drugs he has to pay out of pocket, and I forgot what his copays are. I'd call and ask but you just don't call my dad if you don't have an hour or 2 to spare.

His wife is a social worker that deals with troubled teens and she's trying to get a county job just for the health insurance, and she doesn't care what the pay is.

Actually, that's not quite true. People from 20-40 pay about the same as people in countries with socialized medicine. It's the 50- when you get medicare bracket that are paying the most. Freen, even if he had health insurance, would paying about the same as you do.

I don't know who told you that but I can guarantee that's bs. When you look at how much more money we pay than they do there's no way in hell that difference can come from just the last 20-30 years of life.

Sorry Nuke, but that's exactly what the government did wrong. The didn't let some banks fail. I don't see the Fed saving small businesses in Michigan or Indiana. Thank god.

As for your story, I'm not saying that the current system is right Nuke. I never said that. All I'm saying is what was passes was wrong. I'm sure if your Dad had the ability to buy across state lines he wouldn't be in such a befuddled mess.

[Nuclear Raunch]

A study done at Harvard University indicates that this is the biggest cause of bankruptcy, representing 62% of all personal bankruptcies. One of the interesting caveats of this study shows that 78% of filers had some form of health insurance, thus bucking the myth that medical bills affect only the uninsured.

http://finance.yahoo.com/banking-budgeting/article/109143/top-5-reasons-why-people-go-bankrupt?mod=bb-checking_savings