A New Law

[maddog]

OK going on the god theme we can all agree that god made adam and eve according to the bible and adam and eve had two sons which was cain and abel now both were married ( or one of them was i cant remeber which ) either way if god only made one man one women and they had two sons one or both were married who the hell did they marry only answer is their sisters or sister which in that case the whole bible is based on incest which most religous groups say is a bad thing as for a bullying law its total crap if u dont like being bullied then do something about it. as for commiting suicide that is just an action of a selfish person who has no respect for their life or anyones around them ie parents or other loved ones

[windhound]

Eh. Suicide is only selfish in older people, I'm thinking somewhere around 18-20+
This was a kid. Kids have a sense of invincibility, that nomatter what they do they'll be alright, nothing bad can happen. Respawn and such.

No, I think its much more the fault of the grown people in this ordeal, who thought it appropriate to tease and taunt a child.
Unless girls are dropping left and right and this was another one, the case here is that the mother of one of students (or one of her employees?) setup a fake myspace page, befriended the girl, then basically told her the world would be better off without her.

However... there was already infrastructure inplace for this kind of thing. Just because it happened on teh internets doesnt, shouldnt, make it any different.
Some people felt pressured to do something, so they did. Its how a good portion of laws get passed, for better or worse. Reactionary.

I dislike the government trying to legislate problems away, as it rarely works properly and occasionally makes things worse
But its a part of today's society... as mentioned in another thread a while back, some schools in Britain have stopped recess for fear of getting sued by parents when Susie comes home with a scraped knee.

Think Of The Children generally goes too far. Let the parents think for their own children. And! let teachers properly punish in school. A teacher's hands are tied. They cant do anything to a misbehaving child other than call the parents, who may not do their job in correcting the issue.
I'm a little torn on the issue, but eh. A public butt thwacking has its place

[Gen. Volkov]

Its in Leviticus. I mean, we ALL follow Leviticus today. Stone women for being whores. Kill those that work on Sunday. Etc.

Yeah, I know the bit, but from what I remembered, it's sodomy that's an abomination, not the men who do it. And yeah, Leviticus is SO important to modern life. LOL.

[Tetigustas shadowson]

More Bible scriptures written by Humans, your part was written by a guy named 'Leviticus' above all he was a Roman. It is no wonder he says kill them all and let god sort them out, he was a flipping Roman and they killed everything they came across that wasn’t Roman.

If we followed every word of that book we'd kill every human on the planet, why because they are all sinners and undeserving of gods bliss...!

The only reason Christianity isn’t a cult, is because it’s gone mainstream. No one wants to buck the Christian tide, throughout history going against the Christians most assuredly meant death. The older religions needed to hide their beliefs like criminals, EG (Babylonian, Sumerian, Norse, Celts, Pagans and many more lost in (the Christian cover up) when it was the Christians doing all the killing, and sinning in the name of a fictitious god.
This Christian god is stolen and renamed, taken from an ancient society of believers older than Christianity, the stories, the personage, the time periods and the creation text.
ALL STOLEN….
The passages you are reading in the Bible was rewritten to fit the needs of the present Church, not to belay the truth or GODS word, but to reinforce their stature in the society of the day, no different than some Presidents, Kings and Dictators have done after the original Roman ‘CATHOLIC’ Church rewrote it.
Here’s the thing….
The Churches of Rome saw their following leaving the city in a steady stream, they decided to add the scriptures of this one god to their own scriptures, abandoning the old Roman Gods, or did they….
What they really did was to rename them and fit them into their stories, this was so every one would believe they are the one true Church and they wouldn’t loose their revenues…..

It’s all about the money and always has been………..


I was Raised Roman Catholic……
Today I am ‘none denominated’…
What does that mean anyway? ‘None denominated’…….
I believe in the human spirit and the perpetuation of the human species.

[Freenhult]

^^ Yeah. Sure.

[topaz]

I think I will dodge the Bible issue completely as it was not a key issue in this discussion but intruduced later (quite off the subject, may I add). I will also dodge the gay/straight issue since the reason for the bullying is not the issue either. Instead I will raise an issue that I believe is central to this discussion, stated simply as follows:

Is it the responsibility of the government (US or otherwise) to provide and regulate education for children?

I believe the answer is a resounding NO!! My reasons follow...

Education is NOT a right of the people. Rights (by definition) is something intangible you are born with, something you naturally have. They are not free, as some claim, for many have died to protect them, but they do not cost money either. Rights also are not universal (not that they should not be but I am speaking realistically) as they have been denied to many people since History began. Education does not fall into this category at all. It costs money (lots) and people work (very hard in some countries) to obtain it. The Fact that my government has decided to provide it for my children "free of charge" (not) does not change this fact.

The truth is if you choose to take the Government up on this free education it costs you quite a lot. First, you lose your rights to make decisions for your family. The government decides what is important for your children to know (I won't mention what they teach them with cucumbers!!) and not to know.

If the government's idea of a complete education matches your standards (it does not match mine) you are welcome to allow your children to attend. However, do not expect them to come home with the same standards and values that you have. The government will teach them what to think, say, and do.

I believe that the responsibility of education falls squarely on the shoulders of the Parents. Notice I said PARENTS not Government. You (as a parent or future-parent) have brought a child into this World and his (or her) future success or failure is dependent upon your decisions. If you think your standards and beliefs are good enough for the next generation, teach them to your children. If you don't pass them on, don't expect Big Brother to...they will die with you.

The government has plans for your children...Yes I believe that there are people there who really wish to make a difference and do some good in the world, but many government people are not concerned with the future of their countries but with their own power and influence (ok, so if you disagree than explain much of the useless spending and other poor decisions our government makes). These would have your children grow up to be docile, drugged up, ignorant people who will not interfere with their success. Others in the government wish for them to grow up much the same, only with the purpose of pushing forward a corrupt agenda that would be rejected by a (really) educated population.

In short, if you care about the future...educate your children. If you trust Big Brother with the future...let him take care of them.

If you are wondering what this has to do with the issue at hand, there would be no problems with school discipline if the parents were responsible for the education of their own children. We don't need more rules, more taxes, more government control, more socialism....I say, "stay away from my children...I brought them into this world, I will take care of them!"

[Tetigustas shadowson]

A bit of an anti-establishmentarian eh topaz!
Problem is; ‘as I see it’, if we remove the BIG BROTHER factor and allow every Tom, Dick, and Jane raise their children as they see fit, we are going to have allot more crime and destitute individuals.
Do you really want personages with no respect for law and law enforcement to raise kids with NO RESTRAINTS and NO RESPECT for your rights…?

You may choose to raise your children in a home educated environment, but some people have no choice! They must rely on the public system to educate their children, should they suffer for it?

We have lots of laws; some good, some nonsensical, and some really dumb. Yet the laws that protect you from burglars and thugs should not be rescinded, and are indeed good laws.
Alaska has the right to posses, on your person, hidden under your coat, FIREARMS.
Crime in Alaska is on a decline due to the average individuals’ ability to shoot burglars, thugs, car jackers, thieves, rapists, and any one who isn’t supposed to be in your face!

The present day community is full of People who cannot make change let alone mac-n-cheez, there are allot of people who cannot seem to cope with society and live in sewer systems, back alleys, and abandoned buildings, some have cardboard signs panhandling and live in old boxes, that percentage of individuals would increase exponentially, the staggering counts of homeless in America is overwhelming most of the city shelters.

IF we abandon rights, laws, education, and government, we will launch the world into a societal anarchy, where the biggest gun is king and the peasant is dead or worse yet a slave.

This bully problem has stemmed from adults, telling kids to be stronger, bigger, meaner, and ruthless, ‘(go team go, win, win, win)’ these thought processes are for use in school sports (physical contact sports), the children who lack direction, take this type of mentality into his daily life, they see it as the way it should be, it’s the way to win, what is wrong with it?

We need parents who are involved with their children, to do this we need a society that allows a parent to be at home with the kids. Today’s society requires both parents working full time just to feed and clothe these children, what’s wrong with taking some responsibility into the public arena.

A law to keep my child from getting killed just because he was walking down the freshmen hall when some mentally damaged kid with a grudge come hunting his bully with his daddy’s gun!

I like the law and think its about dang time!

[topaz]

The present day community is full of People who cannot make change let alone mac-n-cheez, there are allot of people who cannot seem to cope with society and live in sewer systems, back alleys, and abandoned buildings, some have cardboard signs panhandling and live in old boxes, that percentage of individuals would increase exponentially, the staggering counts of homeless in America is overwhelming most of the city shelters.

This is exactly what I am talking about!!! I have talked to students from public schools in my own school district (not to mention, educated with my tax dollers) who have a deficiency of knowledge that is startling. I'm talking High Schoolers who do not know how to effectively communicate in their native tounge.

Do you really want personages with no respect for law and law enforcement to raise kids with NO RESTRAINTS and NO RESPECT for your rights…?

I have worked with these kids that are in our public school system. You can't tell me they have respect for authority now. I can't speak for kids in any other area, but I cannot imagine that they are much different in any similar system. And (just wondering) isn't respect for other's rights the very foundation of a bully problem.

IF we abandon rights, laws, education, and government, we will launch the world into a societal anarchy, where the biggest gun is king and the peasant is dead or worse yet a slave.

Maybe if you actually read my post you would understand what I am saying. Education is not a RIGHT--it is a PRIVELAGE. Rights are free, education costs money. Rights are universal, education is limited. An example of a right is the Freedom of Speech guaranteed in our (American) Constitution. I can speak what I believe is true and no one can punish me for it. The very fact that you can express your disagreement with my opinion is an example of this. No government on earth has the power to STOP you from expressing your opinion without killing or maiming you (which is definitely a violation of human rights).

What I am talking about is not an abandonment of our rights or laws. It is a restructuring of our system to hold parents responsible for their part in educating their children. I don't mean abolishing public schools (I guess you could have inturpreted me that way). I believe if a parent wants to send their child to public shool and educate them that way, that is great--as long as the parent is involved. The government is not responsible for providing free babysitting.

[The Beatles]

I think the root of the problem is the consumer society. I've become convinced of it.

[bjornredtail]

Maybe if you actually read my post you would understand what I am saying. Education is not a RIGHT--it is a PRIVELAGE. Rights are free, education costs money. Rights are universal, education is limited. An example of a right is the Freedom of Speech guaranteed in our (American) Constitution. I can speak what I believe is true and no one can punish me for it. The very fact that you can express your disagreement with my opinion is an example of this. No government on earth has the power to STOP you from expressing your opinion without killing or maiming you (which is definitely a violation of human rights).

It always bothers me when people say that. Why? A RIGHT IS A PRIVILEGE granted from a higher authority. In this case, the higher authority is the state and local government, as per their laws and regulations. There has been some form of public through most of the United States throughout most of our history. Clear back to 1785, the federal government was giving grants to create local public schools (see Land Ordnance of 1785).

I think the root of the problem is the consumer society. I've become convinced of it.

Explain...

I'd think that there have been bullies since long before the rise of the consumer society. I'd blame the changing reaction to it on feminism, or to be more accurate, the strain of anti-masculinity in our primary education that doesn't provide other outlets for boy's energies, and punishes the victims of bullying, preventing them from defending themselves.

[Freenhult]

I'm more with Beatles on this one.

[The Beatles]

Not for bullying -- for the deterioration of education, among other things.

[topaz]

A RIGHT IS A PRIVILEGE granted from a higher authority.

I can see where people in our times would think this. If this is the case then why have there been several examples in History where people (not just the US) rebelled against their current government asserting that they HAD more rights than their government had GRANTED them. These people did not believe that government is the source of rights (in the case of the US this thought came largely from the writings of John Locke and the Bible, but there were other Philosophers who thought this way as well).

I'd think that there have been bullies since long before the rise of the consumer society.

I heartily agree. There are numerous examples of bullying on all levels of society in even a quick glance through History. We don't see this readily because our history books focus on the grandiose events. You can see the examples I mentioned if you take a casual glance at any nation's folklore or literature.

[Gen. Volkov]

A RIGHT IS A PRIVILEGE granted from a higher authority.

In a dictatorship, that is true, but the US is a republican democracy. So the rights are granted to us by ourselves. In the US, the ultimate authority derives from the people, not our elected leaders. We are governed by consent, not by right.

[The Beatles]

For all intents and purposes though, in the modern US, a right is a privilege arduously granted by a quorum of the people and corporations, and easily taken by the whim of a few leaders.