My legal odyssey :(

[Nuclear Raunch]

I own a condo, which has many good and bad things, one of the bad things is a Homeowners Association (HOA). I was never thrilled at the prospect of an HOA, but the overall advantages a condo would bring to my current situation made it in my mind worth the risk. From the start I've had nothing but troubles from my HOA, but nothing that was a reason to sell. The HOA didn't charge the previous owner for his last months dues, and so they tried to stick me with it. Now, I'm a bit stubborn and I knew it would create a lot of problems to object but I would much rather stick up for myself than just grumble quietly to myself while I let them overcharge me. So I never paid the previous owners bill. (legally not required to either)

For the last couple years they have sent me numerous bills trying to collect on that months dues as well as late fees that have accumulated since. I regularly threw those things into the trash and made sure I always paid my "real" bill. After about 6-7 conversations with them explaining their problem and showing them in their own rulebook where it said that I was not responsible for the previous owners bills I got pissed and started sending them their dues every 3 months. the reason for tha was it was just long enough for them to send a certified letter (they had me an extra month behind than I really was) after which I would pay the 3 months plus the late fees that I would have normally been charged had my account been handled properly. (Read: I paid late fees for the 2 months and paid no earlier than 2 hours before late fees would have accrued for the 3rd month, and yes I realize that's childish)

When I went in today I made my regular payment, got my receipt, and just before I left they conferred with management and decided they had made a mistake. I overheard them saying they couldn't accept money since they were trying to put a lien on my place, at which point the receptionist came and asked me if she could "double check something on my receipt." I'm not a complete idiot and I realized immediately that by double check she meant she planned to confiscate it so I can't prove in court that I had made a payment. So I kindly asked her what she needed to verify on my receipt that wasn't on her carbon copy and she got an "oh (Profanity is a sign of Maturity), he figured it out" look on her face and said that they couldn't accept my payment.

Upon further prying she revealed that they were in the process of attempting to secure a lien against my house. When I asked her why I was never notified she said that the lawyer claimed to have sent one out on 8/2/06. (I never received a copy of this, I got no phone calls, nobody came to the door and said something, nothing...) I asked her if she could produce a copy of the document they had supposedly sent to me and shortly thereafter I was handed 6 pages of legalese and 1 page showing a bill. On the bill they said I hadn't made a payment in 6 months. Of those 6 months 3 were paid already and 3 was in the check I was trying to give them today. The previous payment I had made of 3 months just so happened to be turned into the very same girl I was talking to today. When I had paid that last bill I had informed her of the HOA's mistake and requested that they correct my account to remove the previous owners bill. When I talked to her today she said she remembered talking to me, remembered me paying her, and after I asked her if she had properly input it into the computer she printed off my account history showing that I had paid the bill.

Now, the lawyers bill is actually quite a bit different than the one the HOA had on their file, with the most troublesome difference being that the HOA's bill is less than the legal limit required before an HOA can foreclose, and the lawyers bill is higher than that limit. Again, I'm not a complete idiot, I know what that one is all about. Tommorrow I will have to really start the process of selecting a lawyer, gathering up evidence, researching laws, etc... and will probably post more updated information then, but for now here's a few things that I have seen and noticed so far.

• We had a specially called meeting in March-ish to discuss the CCR's. (HOA rules) At this meeting the HOA introduced their new lawyer. He was there to speak with homeowners to address the concerns that apparantly a lot of owners had had with the HOA. He started by basically giving us his resumè which seemed to go on forever. He's been on several boards sponsered by the state to establish rules for HOA's, done HOA's exclusively for 30+ years, yada yada yada. I was pretty impressed with his resumè but just figured that the HOA had hired a really good lawyer and thought nothing of it.

After today's discoveries I thought about that and realized that nobody buys a Lamborghini just to drive the speed limit. There's plenty of cars that are a hell of a lot cheaper that can do that just fine. With his experience I'm positive he's one of the most expensive HOA lawyers around, and it wouldn't make any sense for the HOA to hire him if they merely wanted someone to handle the day to day legal affairs.

• While reading up on horror stories I came across a case that involved a $200 dispute between a homeowner and an HOA. After a lengthy court battle the judge ruled that the homeowner was right, she did not owe that $200. But she should have paid it anyway and settled the legal case afterwards and so the judge stuck her with a $20,000 legal bill even though she was right. this is especially troubling for me since that fits my case perfectly.

• Board members are all volunteer, but they can legally get kickbacks. For instance a landscape contractor may bid a job for $10k with the promise of a $500 kickback to each board member and win the job over a more qualified contractor who only bid the same job for $5k. This sticks out because our entire parking lot has been repaved every year that I've been here.

• The bill the lawyer sent was high enough for him to foreclose, but the bill the HOA had for me was lower than the limit.

• The lawyers bill showed me as having never paid a penny starting right around the time he was hired to replace their old lawyer.

• Foreclosed homes are sold at auction for a fraction of their market value. I haven't completely researched it, but I believe the homeowner gets the leftovers after legal fees take their toll, but the price you get (if in fact you do get any) is a pittance compared to the real value.

• In my 9-10 trips to court (all but one traffic) I have never once seen justice served. If I'm in the wrong I win the case, when I'm right I always lose. In this case I think I'm right.

This probably won't surprise you guys, but my current plan (strongly subject to change) is to hire a lawyer, straighten this (Profanity is a sign of Maturity) up, and sell my place and move somewhere without an HOA. Thankfully I caught them when I did, but God only knows how much damage has already been done.

EDIT: I'm also doing my preliminary loan calculations for my next house. Must say I'm shocked at how low rates are atm. It's only 1/8th of a % above what it was when I bought (I'll have 20% down now which I didn't then)

[Freenhult]

Wow...That is soo sad. I hope you freaking roast them.

[Kraken]

well.............maybe i will read all of your post in a bit. but until then! mwa hahahaa! pay your bills you slacker!

here is a post you might like and find interesting and quite on topic nukey.

http://www.latimes.com/business/la-0815 ... -headlines

[The Beatles]

Wow. Well, so much for "there are no cats in America"...

[Freenhult]

...That's horrible Beatles. *Laughs*

[windhound]

I remember that movie

I was thinking more of over the hedge...
sucks nuke.. as bad as it is, it probably would have been better to just pay the cost of attempting avoiding it will prob. be greater

I've heard of a HOA forcing people to cut their grass if it was x far over 2 inches, and if they didnt they'd hire (usually the most expensive) lawn care service and charge the bill.. sucky

[Urran Voh]

I've heard of a HOA forcing people to cut their grass if it was x far over 2 inches, and if they didnt they'd hire (usually the most expensive) lawn care service and charge the bill.. sucky

Which is why I'm buying land in Montana and building my own house. Massive parties every day :*laughs*:

[Nuclear Raunch]

Freen: I don't know that I can really do much besides break even, I have however submitted an idea to my congressman (God damn I miss Condit right now)

I won't divulge specifics in my case until after it is resolved, but for now let's just say that I am quickly becoming one of the dreaded HOA horror stories we hear about.  After a little investigation I have found that certain HOA's are much more litigious than others. (with mine unfortunately being one of the worst)  While there are many contentious issues with HOA's that need to be addressed, I thought of an easy, politically viable piece of legislation to help balance them out.

That is to make all HOA's disclose their litgiousness as part of escrow.  Basically they would have to disclose their rate as expressed as they average 1 issue requiring legal action per X amount of years per resident. (or some other similiar ranking system)  This would drive down the property values of the malicious HOA's while driving up the property values for more benign HOA's, thereby giving all HOA's a financial incentive to reduce the burden on our courts.

Kraken: Why haven't you read it yet, it'll only take an hour to read.

And I have paid them every penny they have been due, except for the payments they have refused to accept. The real issue here, is that you have an excellent chance to belittle California (as 90% of HOA horror stories come from here) and you didn't even take your shot. Probably the only chance you have to do so without me disputing it.



I just submitted a formal request for dispute mediation, I am also going to talk to one of the management company employees tonight after she gets off work. I am mostly concerned with the lawyer right now, I'm pretty sure I can influence the management employee enough to get her to make things happen for me within her company. One of my secondary goals for my meeting is to try to put the HOA in control of the decisions so my friends influence will actually matter.

[bjornredtail]

I've heard of a HOA forcing people to cut their grass if it was x far over 2 inches, and if they didnt they'd hire (usually the most expensive) lawn care service and charge the bill.. sucky

Kindof like the City of Ogden's 6" weed law. That is if weeds are over 6", the city will fine you, then mow anything, weeds, flowers, landscapeing, small dogs, etc. and bill you for it. This is reguardless of what the land is used for (ie. Agraculture) or who is properity owner (ie. my 80+ year old grandmother).

[The Beatles]

small dogs, etc.

:*laughs*: :*laughs*:

[bjornredtail]

Ok... I'll admit to a slight "enhancement" of the facts...

[Nuclear Raunch]

OK, just left the management company employee's house and things are looking up. I had to make some personal concessions but as far as the HOA/lawyers are concerned she seems confident that she can have everything taken care of as long as I can bring her some documents tomorrow.

[Gen. Volkov]

I'm with Urran, I'm moving to "Middle of Nowhere, Indiana" and buying famrland to build a house on. After I'm past the grad student living in an apartment stage of course. But the HOA in my neighborhood isn't too bad. You don't even have to belong to it if you don't want too. But I think that's because it's a neighbor that caters to the Upper Middle Class, with homes in the 150k- 200k range. (That's expensive for Indiana.) Also the people who own the neigborhood I live in own lost of Subdivisions around here, so they aren't as worried about money. Specially with just across the road from my subdivision is one with 500 thousand to million dollar homes, that is also owned by them.

[Kraken]

meh, i didnt read your post all the way, nor do i think i will. too cumbersome, but i did read about 78% of it! however! i own my own house and i can safely say that here in Tennessee, your property is your own and god help any who wander onto it without your knowing! but seriously, i do not belong to any HOA, simply because i choose not to and the fact that my neighborhood really isnt all that great. but! if i let my grass grow over 4 feet, and i am not joking, then the city will come and mow it for me....but it has to reach that four feet. :*laughs*: :*laughs*: :*laughs*:

[Nuclear Raunch]

Clerical error in your favor, collect $650!!

I normally wouldn't exploit it, but with these people I think I'll make an exception.